Tim, The most effective way to run emacspeak side-by-side with Gnome/X is to do the following: 1. I run emacs inside screen on a virtual console outside of X --- being able to power detach and reattach from elsewhere is too important to give up -- something that Gnome wont give you easily. 2. With emacs 23 and later you can do the following in gnome: alt-f2 to bring up the run dialog, and invoke emacsclient -c this will open a new frame on your already running emacs but on the X side. 2. When done you can always just kill this frame with C-x 5 0 Note:if you shutdown X or log out your session without closing this frame, emacs will crash. 3. To silence orca when in emacs:orca has a self-voicing.py script or something similar --- copy it to emacs.py. It's not a foolproof solution but mostly silences orca. -- Best Regards, --raman -- Best Regards, --raman On 2/12/11, Tim Cross <theophilusx@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Just a couple of comments re: emacspeak, espeak, orca and terminals. > > Firstly, the ubuntu distribtuion of espeak does not work well with > emacspeak. The problem is that espeak by default is linked against > portaudio. I fixed this problem by building from sources and linking against > pulseaudio and it works fine. All the distro releases I tried were unusable > - cut off speech, sluggish etc. > > With regard to terminals, I would try running emacs and emacspeak inside a > tradtional xterm rather than gnome-terminal. Last time I looked (a while > ago, so this may be out of date), orca did not speech enable basic xterm, so > I was able to get reasonable success using emacs inside an xterm rather than > a gnome-terminal. May be worth looking at. > > Also, while I've not used it in a while, there were modules avaiialable to > make emacs and emacspeak communicate with firefox, allowing you to let > firefox render pages (including fava script) and using emacspeak to speak > them. Last time I looked the necessary firefox modules were out of date > (i.e. not working with the latest firefox, but I've not looked at this in > some time). > > Tim > > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote: > >> Putting Emacspeak on a live cd is being ironed out right now by the >> Vinux project. A blind user will have all the screen >> reading/accessing tools available at their disposal right out of the >> box, Speakup, Orca, Yasr and, if it can be managed, Emacspeak. Also, >> there is no menu of choices. Orca and Speakup just come up talking in >> their respective environments without conflict thanks even on LIve cd >> as long as the user has a sound card because the speech synth is >> e-speak. Emacspeak might be made to come up automatically in TTY1, >> Speakup with Gnu Screen in TTY2 and the x-windows session in 7. The >> user can commence to work immediately while still having all the tools >> they need to customize it however they want. Yasr is there for >> emergencies and for those partial to it as well. With Emacspeak >> included, the user will have all the productivity and efficiency it >> offers right away. The current issue standing in the way is that >> Emacspeak doesn't seem to play nice with Orca. "East is East and West >> is West and never the twain shall meet," as the saying goes. Running >> emacspeak in a gnome terminal with an -nw switch keeps Gnome from >> locking up but Orca won't get out of the way and stop talking so >> Emacspeak can be used effectively. Some people want to be able to use >> it in Gnome to be able to use Firefox for Javascript pages, you see. >> There was another which was ironed out where Emacs was making itself >> the default editor for Gnome which a lot of users would object to. >> So, getting Emacspeak to work within x-windows side by side with Orca >> is the current thing being worked out. While Tony Sales, the creator >> of Vinux irons out a pre-installation or a shell script that >> accomplishes this for people, I'm going to see if Orca can be silenced >> in the terminals to be supplanted with Yasr for this environment and >> then have emacspeak come up with Yasr put somehow to sleep. This way, >> if users want to do something else in the terminal, they still have a >> screen reader. I don't know Yasr well so, this will involve lots of >> trial and error. I don't use Emacspeak this way. I have serious >> doubts that this can be done as well as it can inside a console with >> speakup. >> >> >> Have a good evening, all >> >> Alex M >> On 2/12/11, Steve Holmes <steve@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > This live CD idea sounds like it would be fun to build. Maybe I'll >> > get started. >> > >> > I agree that so many emacs applications and emacs, in general for that >> > matter, don't offer a lot for startup configurations. A fresh install >> > of emacs or anything related to it has always required a user to >> > completely populate the configuration parameters from scratch and copy >> > whatever from info pages and the like. I rather like the idea of >> > fully loaded configurations with self-describing comments to help out >> > the person going through the file. Many other linux type applications >> > do this. Take Samba, mysql, postgresql and others for example. But >> > for a new-comer, even the self-commented config files would be rather >> > daunting. So a pre-built live CD deal may be good but it will have to >> > be emphasised that there are many other user definable choices and >> > make it clear that to get even more out of this new environment, "you" >> > the user, will need to study the materials and gain a comfort level >> > making changes to emacs. The custom facility in emacs does make this >> > considerablly easier than before. >> > >> > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 01:58:00AM -0600, Stephen Cagle wrote: >> >> Agreed, live CD would probably be even better than virtual machine. >> >> Good >> >> idea. >> >> >> >> I agree that we should not assume that we are smart enough to know the >> >> type >> >> of uses people will find for emacs. We should not discard anyone. I >> think >> >> one of the biggest hurdles to trying emacspeak out is actually >> >> installing/configuring the software. Live CD would allow people to >> easily >> >> demonstrate the power of emacspeak anywhere or to anyone. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Jude DaShiell >> >> <jdashiel@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote: >> >> >> >> > It all comes down to exposure possibilities. One of the secretaries >> who >> >> > worked in my first full-time job location had emacs installed on her >> >> > computer and it was known all over the base that anyone attempting to >> >> > replace it with a Microsoft product was going to get themselves hurt. >> >> > She also had the full support of her boss in this respect, and it >> >> > doesn't >> >> > pay to mess around with security types. I'm sure that secretary >> >> > would >> >> > have had little to no problem with emacspeak too. I'm wondering now >> how >> >> > hard it would be to make an emacspeak live cd and then put it up on >> the >> >> > internet for people to download and try. If it had an installation >> >> > script >> >> > on it so that emacspeak and Linux could take over an entire computer >> >> > when >> >> > the user was confident enough with it, then many of the issues with >> >> > respect to installation guides at least would go away for those using >> >> > the >> >> > live cd. Unfortunately most of my time is taken up by windows or by >> now >> >> > I >> >> > might have learned how to do this and got it done. On Sat, 12 Feb >> 2011, >> >> > Tim Cross wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Stephen Cagle <samedhi@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > I think we can all agree that T.V. Raman is a fine technical >> writer. >> >> > > > I >> >> > > > think there is however a rather limited number of up to date >> >> > > > AND singularly sourced guides to getting started with emacspeak. >> If >> >> > someone >> >> > > > wants to make a minimal "getting up and running with emacspeak" >> >> > > > guide, >> >> > then >> >> > > > I think that would be quite a boon to emacspeak in general. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > There have been several efforts to create 'friendly' user guides, >> >> > > getting >> >> > > started tutorials, etc. The real problem is that once written, they >> >> > > are >> >> > not >> >> > > maintained and over time, become increasingly out of date. Rather >> >> > > than >> >> > > re-invent the wheel, I think it would be better to start with >> >> > > something >> >> > like >> >> > > the installation-guide and users-guide which come with emacspeak. >> >> > > Contributions and improvements to these guides have always been >> >> > > welcomed >> >> > in >> >> > > the past. It is better to have one definitive guide for >> >> > > installation >> >> > > and >> >> > use >> >> > > rather than multiple guides scattered around the net in various >> stages >> >> > > of >> >> > > copleteness or levels of accuracy. >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Just some random things to consider: >> >> > > > Will emacspeak ever be useful to less technically inclined >> >> > > > people? >> >> > > > That >> >> > is, >> >> > > > will it always primarily be used by programmers and other >> technical >> >> > persons >> >> > > > who use emacs? Is it possible to get less technical people to use >> >> > emacs? Is >> >> > > > it worthwhile? >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Certainly possible for less technical people to use it. Probably >> not >> >> > > worhtwhile trying to do so. I think the best course of action is to >> >> > > make >> >> > > emacspeak as good as possible, with good documentation and let its >> >> > > main >> >> > > drawing power be its alternative (and I would argue better) >> approach. >> >> > > If >> >> > it >> >> > > has enough of an advantage over alternatives, it will attract those >> >> > > who >> >> > > would benefit/appreciate its difference. >> >> > > >> >> > > Finally, what about virtualization solutions today? Perhaps a >> >> > > vmware >> >> > > (or >> >> > > > some other) image of a Linux distro with emacspeak properly set >> >> > > > up >> >> > > > and >> >> > > > configured could be created. This would allow novices to "test >> >> > > > drive" >> >> > > > emacspeak without having to take the full Linux/emacs/emacspeak >> >> > > > plunge. >> >> > I >> >> > > > think this might make Alex's goal of bringing emacspeak to the >> >> > > > windows >> >> > > > masses easier, as they would not have to worry about the initial >> >> > hardware >> >> > > > question. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Hmm - not sure. Those who are uncomfortable with the hardware and >> >> > > > Linux >> >> > are >> >> > > probably going to be just as uncomfortable with an appliance >> approach >> >> > > and >> >> > > dealing with virtual machines/images etc. >> >> > > >> >> > > I think a better approach would be to help out one of the >> 'specialist' >> >> > > distros like vinux to make sure the emacspeak they include in the >> >> > > distro >> >> > is >> >> > > as robust and optimally configured as possible. People can then run >> >> > > from >> >> > the >> >> > > live cd image to try things out and later, if they want to, either >> do >> >> > > a >> >> > dual >> >> > > boot or a virtual image. >> >> > > >> >> > > Tim >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Jason White <jason@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> >> > wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> > I've noticed in my learning of Emacspeak that, while there are >> >> > plenty >> >> > > >> > of reference materials, the number of up-to-date >> >> > > >> > tutorial-style >> >> > > >> > documents geared towards a raw newbie are somewhat sparse and >> >> > > >> > spread >> >> > > >> > out and are written in a way that someone coming from a strong >> Ms >> >> > > >> > Windows background would find rather laborious to follow, >> >> > > >> > increasing >> >> > > >> > their learning curve unnecessarily. This is probably because >> >> > > >> > a >> >> > > >> > lot >> >> > of >> >> > > >> > it was written by people who have used Linux for longer than >> >> > > >> > Windows >> >> > > >> > has been accessible (oh, what a battle that has been!) and, as >> is >> >> > the >> >> > > >> > case with many a developer, are more comfortable writing code >> >> > > >> > than >> >> > > >> > writing documents. >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> Actually, T.V. Raman, the author of Emacspeak, is one of the >> >> > > >> most >> >> > > >> accomplished >> >> > > >> technical writers that I have encountered - he is adept at >> writing >> >> > prose >> >> > > >> as >> >> > > >> well as code. >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> I would suggest reading his papers describing Emacspeak before >> you >> >> > embark >> >> > > >> on >> >> > > >> preparing a tutorial; this will give you a deeper understanding >> of >> >> > > >> the >> >> > > >> design >> >> > > >> principles of the Emacspeak user interface. >> >> > > >> > What I propose to do is to write a simple tutorial for >> newcomers >> >> > > >> > to >> >> > > >> > Emacspeak geared towards people who are new to command line, >> >> > > >> > Linux >> >> > and >> >> > > >> Emacs >> >> > > >> > as well. >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> A fundamental question that I would suggest considering is this: >> >> > > >> what >> >> > do >> >> > > >> such >> >> > > >> people really need to know before they can comfortably read >> >> > > >> Emacs >> >> > > >> documentation, manual pages, HOWTO documents and other sources? >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> I have read claims in several places to the effect that it's >> harder >> >> > for >> >> > > >> former >> >> > > >> MS-Windows users to learn a UNIX-like environment than it is for >> >> > absolute >> >> > > >> beginners who have had no prior computing experience. >> >> > > >> Presumably, >> >> > > >> to >> >> > the >> >> > > >> extent that this is the case, it is because MS-Windows users >> >> > > >> have >> >> > > >> to >> >> > set >> >> > > >> aside >> >> > > >> their prior knowledge and habits in making the adjustment. I'm >> only >> >> > > >> speculating here; the last Microsoft product that I ever used >> >> > > >> was >> >> > > >> DOS >> >> > 6 >> >> > > >> and I >> >> > > >> opted entirely out of Windows in favour of Linux at that time. >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on >> >> > > >> the >> >> > > >> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" >> with >> >> > > >> a >> >> > > >> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >> > emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >> > subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >> > >> > >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of "unsubscribe" or "help".
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