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Re: emacspeak and w3



thanks Raman. Will look into the mime stuff.

Unfortunately, colour themes, x-resources and face customizations are
all no good with w3 and have no effect. The w3 code dynamically
creates faces on the fly. I've looked at this stuff in the past, but
it is quite complicated and I tend to disappear down the rabbit whole
each time I try to get a handle on it. Part of the problem is that the
issue appears to be a combination of many smaller issues, so fixing
one doesn't help - you need to fix them all. Some of them are similar
to issues that have come up in other areas - for example, having a
decent metric to ensure foreground/background colours are distinct or
distant enough from each other to be readable, dealing with
inconsistent/bad style settings, recognition of some users preference
for a black/dark background etc etc.

I've made several attempts to fix/improve this in the past, but either
get distracted or loose momentum. However, I'm very keen to get decent
epub support within emacspeak, so maybe there is more motivation to
try harder! The first thing I need to do is increase my knowledge re:
CSS, DOM, etc. This has not been a focus in my work for the last 10+
years, so I'm not up to speed in this area yet.

Always good to have a new challenge! Just wish I could work on this
stuff all the time and not spend so many mind numbing hours in the
corporate world, where technology seems to be relegated to the
basement, being replaced by project managers, cloud services and
vendor management! If I had better cane skills and could move faster,
bank robbery would be a serious option.


Tim




On 9 May 2012 01:17, T.V. Raman <tv.raman.tv@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mime t tweaking -- admittedly this is a mess with w3.
>
> I believe my patches included a modification where
> application/xhtml+xml was handled on the same lines as text/html
> --- you also need to customize some of the mm- variables. Check
> in emacspeak/tvr -- if not already there, I'll check in the
> settings you need.
>
> For the white-on-white problem, try switching emacs color themes
> --
> --
>
> --
>
>
> On 5/7/12, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The quick and dirty 'fix' I applied for this werror is to comment out
>> the two lines from w3-speak.el which require emacspeak-fix-interactive
>> at cimpile time. This stops the make process from exiting early and
>> ensures the rest of the *.el files are compiled. It does not appear to
>> have any dramatic impact.
>>
>> Raman, I looked at your patch from your w3 and I think your right. It
>> looks like all you changes do is remove some of the excessive
>> 'padding' w3 was doing when rendering things like lists and
>> blockquote. On my system, the unmodified version would put boxquote
>> elements and lists right over on the right hand side - so much so that
>> blockquotes would end up being rendered as only one or two words per
>> line. I found that modifying the default.css file to change all margin
>> settings from 5em to 1em greatly improved things.
>>
>> One remaining and extremely frustrating issue I have is that on some
>> pages, regardless of style sheet settings, w3 renders the page with
>> white background and white foreground/text or white background and
>> light grey text. As someone who actualy finds looking at a screen with
>> a white background physically painful, this is somewhat frustrating. I
>> did look at this a while back as it was the main reason I stopped
>> ujsing w3 and from memory, it is due to a bad interaction with pages
>> that have either forced a background colour and don't set any
>> text/foreground colour and/or conflicts between css settings and 'hard
>> coded' page settings. Maybe it is time to look at it again.
>>
>> I also suspect I have to do some MIME tweaking. When using the epub
>> feature, it works with some epub titles, but fails with others. In
>> particular, seems to fail with titles generated primarily for the
>> kindle. With these titles, instead of opening the content, it asks me
>> where to same the MIME object. Need to investigate further.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2012 14:09, T. V. Raman <tv.raman.tv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> this error has been around for a long time and shouldn't affect anything.
>>>
>>>>>>>> "Bart" == Bart Bunting <bart@ursys.com.au> writes:
>>>    Bart> Raman, et al, Whilst we are discussing w3 I am seeing
>>>    Bart> issues when doing a make on the w3 source. It appears
>>>    Bart> to be related to emacspeak libraries not being found.
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> Having said that w3 itself appears to work even with
>>>    Bart> the error.
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> Is this normal?
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> I see this both under linux and on my mac.
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> Here is the make error:
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> bart@bit:~/.emacs.d/src/w3$make cd lisp && make w3
>>>    Bart> GNUSDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/gnus/
>>>    Bart> URLDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url/
>>>    Bart> W3SRCDIR=. emacs -batch -q -no-site-file -l ./docomp.el
>>>    Bart> -l
>>>    Bart> /usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url//url-vars.el
>>>    Bart> -l ./w3-vars.el -f batch-byte-compile w3-display.el
>>>    Bart> uncompressing url-vars.el.gz... uncompressing
>>>    Bart> url-vars.el.gz...done Wrote w3-display.elc
>>>    Bart> GNUSDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/gnus/
>>>    Bart> URLDIR=/usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url/
>>>    Bart> W3SRCDIR=. emacs -batch -q -no-site-file -l ./docomp.el
>>>    Bart> -l
>>>    Bart> /usr/local/emacs/24.96/share/emacs/24.0.96/lisp/url//url-vars.el
>>>    Bart> -l ./w3-vars.el -f batch-byte-compile w3-speak.el
>>>    Bart> uncompressing url-vars.el.gz... uncompressing
>>>    Bart> url-vars.el.gz...done
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> In toplevel form: w3-speak.el:49:1:Error: Cannot open
>>>    Bart> load file: emacspeak-fix-interactive make[1]: ***
>>>    Bart> [w3-speak.elc] Error 1 make: *** [w3] Error 2
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> Cheers
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> Bart
>>>    Bart>
>>>    Bart> "T.V. Raman" <tv.raman.tv@gmail.com> writes:
>>>    Bart>
>>>    >> Tim, Per your suggestion, I have checked in
>>>    >> emacspeak/tvr/tvr-w3.patch --- the patch was created from
>>>    >> my local snapshot with git diff origin/master
>>>    >>
>>>    >> after making sure that git pull -a claimed my local
>>>    >> snapshot was uptodate.
>>>    >>
>>>    >> Glancing at the patch -- I dont see anything significant
>>>    >> that should make w3 work here and not from the git repo.
>>>    >>
>>>    >> The git repo I am refering to is: git config
>>>    >> remote.origin.url git://git.sv.gnu.org/w3.git
>>>    >> --
>>>    >>
>>>    >> --
>>>    >>
>>>    >>
>>>    >> On 5/7/12, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>    >>> Hi Raman,
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> I've been attempting to get w3 working and while I've
>>>    >>> finally got it going, it was not trivial.
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> I think part of the problem is that there has been no
>>>    >>> updates to the w3 repository since May 2008. I know there
>>>    >>> has been a couple of patches from you and others to fix
>>>    >>> various bugs, but hunting them down and applying them is
>>>    >>> not easy. On this basis, I wanted to make a suggestion.
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> Would it be possible for you to do a diff against the
>>>    >>> current w3 repository code and the version of w3 you are
>>>    >>> running and put the diffs in a w3-patches directory
>>>    >>> within the emacspeak distribution. This would make it
>>>    >>> esier to anyone wanting to run w3 to apply the same
>>>    >>> patches you have been using. In addition to making it
>>>    >>> easier for users, it may help in tracking down problems
>>>    >>> as we will have a common base everyone is working from.
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> regards,
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> Tim
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>> --
>>>    >>> Tim Cross
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>    >>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
>>>    >>> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
>>>    >>> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
>>>    >>> "unsubscribe" or "help".
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>>
>>>    >>
>>>    >>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>    >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
>>>    >> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
>>>    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
>>>    >> "unsubscribe" or "help".
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> --raman
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tim Cross
>>



-- 
Tim Cross

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