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Re: Notes on how to read tables with Emacspeak 8.0 and W3 4.0 beta
So what makes you assume that
I cannot currently speak the table headers?
Remember, I have little interest in "selling or "marketing"
" emacspeak---- so in general you should not assume the
feature set to be what you read about.
Now, if I were selling you the product for thousands of
dollars like some companies,
I would have a lot of incentive to tell you every six months
that the "table access problem is solved!*!"
Janina Sajka writes:
> I agree there are mor interesting challenges than just getting row and
> column labels to read out automatically. But, we don't even have that yet,
> right? So, all I'm saying is that we should cover the basics before doing
> the graduate work--sort of like crawling before walking. How well would
> sighted users do with tables if the lables were hidden? Not well at all, I
> suspect.
>
>
>
> Janina Sajka, Director
> Information Systems Department
> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> janina@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, T. V. Raman wrote:
>
> > There is no single default that will be the "right" thing in
> > all situations--
> > the right thing is to leave that user customizable. And just
> > doing that will not solve the issues with lots of tables,
> > the more interesting/challenging cases are where you nest
> > tables, use colspans to achieve interesting visual
> > relationships between elements and subtables etc.
> >
> > Janina Sajka writes:
> > >
> > > The issue of tables will not be fully solved until the relevant labels for
> > > each cell are also readable automatically. In other words, it's useful and
> > > meaningful to be able to issue a cell left command--but the output that's
> > > read after such a command should include the new column heading as well as
> > > the cell value. Ditto for movements up and down--where the new row label
> > > should be automatically read.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Janina Sajka, Director
> > > Information Systems Department
> > > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > > janina@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, T. V. Raman wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for posting the summary.
> > > > An update on what is happening with tables.
> > > >
> > > > We discovered that a large number of tables generated by
> > > > wysiwyg html editors were bombing inside emacspeak because
> > > > they all produce an octal 225 for a bullet --it's a single
> > > > character that takes 4 spaces when displayed.
> > > > This meant that when we computed the column alignment in the
> > > > emacspeak extension things got computed wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Thierry.Emery@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > who helped me write the table structure code wrote a patch
> > > > for this that I am testing and it appears to work-- but I
> > > > also seem to have broken
> > > > the code I wrote for handling nested tables (not yet
> > > > released).
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, html tables are an unholy mess --given the hacks
> > > > that the commercial browser vendors have snuck in, it turns
> > > > out that each table cell in its ultimate glory (or may be it
> > > > should be gory) is an HTML page in its own right for
> > > > purposes of rendering
> > > > --and that's how the various wysiwyg editors are emitting
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > Jason White writes:
> > > > > Having raised this topic on the mailing list recently, I thought it would
> > > > > be worthwhile to explain briefly how Emacs 8.0 and W3 4.0 make it possible
> > > > > to read tables effectively. I was unable to find documentation of this
> > > > > feature in the Emacspeak manual, but, as always, Emacs itself provides
> > > > > extensive internal documentation which is especially helpful in this case.
> > > > >
> > > > > The sample table which T. V. Raman posted to the list recently, precisely
> > > > > for this purpose, serves as an excellent starting point. Load it into W3
> > > > > and then use c-h b to list the current Emacs key bindings. Among these you
> > > > > will find commands specific to table navigation. For example, c-e cursor
> > > > > right moves to the next column and reads the table cell in that column;
> > > > > c-e left does the opposite of this, as one would expect; c-e up moves to
> > > > > the previous cell in the current column, and is mirrored by c-e down; c-e
> > > > > < moves to the start of the table, c-e > moves to the end of the table
> > > > > (the last row), etc. The interface is straightforward and my description
> > > > > here is merely stating the obvious. C-h b provides a full list of key
> > > > > bindings.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe or change your address send mail to
> > > > > "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of "unsubscribe" or "help"
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > --raman
> > > >
> > > > Adobe Systems Tel: 1 (408) 536 3945 (W14-612)
> > > > Advanced Technology Group Fax: 1 (408) 537 4042
> > > > (W14 129) 345 Park Avenue Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > San Jose , CA 95110 -2704 Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://labrador.corp.adobe.com/~raman/ (Adobe Intranet)
> > > > http://cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/raman.html (Cornell)
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should be taken
> > > > as representative of my employer, Adobe Systems Inc.
> > > > ____________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe or change your address send mail to
> > > > "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of "unsubscribe" or "help"
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> > --raman
> >
> > Adobe Systems Tel: 1 (408) 536 3945 (W14-612)
> > Advanced Technology Group Fax: 1 (408) 537 4042
> > (W14 129) 345 Park Avenue Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > San Jose , CA 95110 -2704 Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://labrador.corp.adobe.com/~raman/ (Adobe Intranet)
> > http://cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/raman.html (Cornell)
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should be taken
> > as representative of my employer, Adobe Systems Inc.
> > ____________________________________________________________
> >
--
Best Regards,
--raman
Adobe Systems Tel: 1 (408) 536 3945 (W14-612)
Advanced Technology Group Fax: 1 (408) 537 4042
(W14 129) 345 Park Avenue Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
San Jose , CA 95110 -2704 Email: raman@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://labrador.corp.adobe.com/~raman/ (Adobe Intranet)
http://cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/raman.html (Cornell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own and in no way should be taken
as representative of my employer, Adobe Systems Inc.
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