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Emacspeak and Braille displays

to get a meaningful response you should not:

A) tangle up issues --as in your case Bralle and GNUS 

B) Make assertions without understanding them
--e.g. "emacspeak-gnus reinventing the wheel"--
much of that code in emacspeak-gnus was written in 1995 when
gnus did not offer the functionality that it now does

C) Assume things that you do not know for a fact e.g., the
author of emacspeak does not use gnus--
I use it regularly--

Given that you've been a free-loader long enough--
you're probably better off contributing constructively
--rather than standing on the sidelines whining:-)
>>>>> "Mario" == Mario Lang <mlang@home.delysid.org> writes:

    Mario> Hello.  I just wanted to start a discussion on
    Mario> the simultaneous use of Emacspeak in combination
    Mario> with a braille display.

    Mario> Is anyone here using this setup?

    Mario> Emacspeak modifies Emacs in some areas such that
    Mario> a emacs with emacspeak loaded behaves quite
    Mario> differently than an Emacs without emacspeak,
    Mario> except from being able to speak of course.

    Mario> Here are some examples:

    Mario> * C-h f and the-like sometimes dont pop-up the
    Mario> window, only read it

    Mario> * All key sequences in help related modes are
    Mario> translated to things like control or meta. This
    Mario> is certainly nice for the audio representation,
    Mario> but when using a braille display concurrently, it
    Mario> is somehow anoying having to read the long words,
    Mario> instead of the nice short representations one is
    Mario> used to.

    Mario> * Matching parens in Lisp mode only announces the
    Mario> line which matches the closing paren in the
    Mario> minibuffer (and via the synth of course).  But
    Mario> point doesnt move like it does in standard
    Mario> emacs. This one (or two) second point move is
    Mario> actually very helpful when using a braille
    Mario> display.

    Mario> * Gnus is modified heavily. I can imagine that
    Mario> the setup emacspeak does with Gnus is somehow
    Mario> useful for the author, but as a long term Gnus
    Mario> user, having Gnus used before I started to use
    Mario> Emacspeak, I can tell you that it is very anoying
    Mario> to use Gnus with emacspeak, in fact, the changes
    Mario> are so drastic, that I dont use Emacspeak with
    Mario> Gnus, although it would be very nice to be able
    Mario> to do so.

    Mario> The header removal e.g. could be done with
    Mario> gnus-article-hide-boring-headers which is a
    Mario> standard part of Gnus instead of the current
    Mario> gnus-summary-show-some-headers and the-like
    Mario> defuns in emacspeak-gnus.el.  Gnus already
    Mario> implements this, and there is no need reinvent
    Mario> the wheel here.

    Mario> Also, (define-key gnus-group-mode-map '[right]
    Mario> 'gnus-group-read-group): gnus-group-read-group is
    Mario> already bound to RET, and some people want to
    Mario> move point the way they did before.

    Mario> I probably could add some more items but let it
    Mario> be for now.

    Mario> I only want to know if anyone else is facing
    Mario> those problems, and if the author is actually
    Mario> interested to change anything related to visual
    Mario> representations. I certainly can imagine that it
    Mario> will not interest you very much Raman, except of
    Mario> course that you have access to a braille display
    Mario> sometimes, or start to use Gnus seriously :).

    Mario> I imagine that it could be possible to do the
    Mario> translation of control meta and the like without
    Mario> manipulating the buffer. For the paren matching
    Mario> problem, I currently have no idea what one could
    Mario> do here.

    Mario> Perhaps someone can give me some enlightenment...

    Mario> -- Regards, Mario <mlang@delysid.org>

Best Regards,

Email:  raman@cs.cornell.edu
WWW: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/             
PGP:    http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/raman.asc 

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