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Re: emacspeak for windows



I agree that once someone is familiar with emacspeak and emacs, the -q switch is annoying. However, I wonder if that minor annoyance has some benefits for someone when they are first starting with emacs and emacspeak. 

Configuration of emacs and even emacspeak can be very daunting at first and it is very easy to get things wrong and cause all sorts of problems when your new and not familiar with elisp or the custom interface. In this situation, -q can have its benefits because it ensures there is a known 'good' state. 

I think we need to be careful about making changes which benefit experienced users, who should be able to configure things themselves, at the expense of new users who are still learning how it all fits together. In general, I think the default startup script should be seen as a temporary solution which you use to get up and running, but which you should either modify or replace with your own personal configuration once you know how things work. In fact, what I would suggest for new users is that they use the default startup script as a starting point, but replace it with their own version, leaving the original alone. If they then screw up their personal config, they can revert to the default version to get them back to a known working state where they can diagnose their personal config. 

Just my 2 cents worth

Tim



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Tim Cross
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On 10/10/2013, at 6:24 AM, Alex Midence <alex.midence@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I've always found the q switch annoying in Linux too.  I wasn't around when the debate in favor of its inclusion took place but, I personally, find it to be quite a pain.  
> 
> 
> Alex
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alastair Irving [mailto:alastair.irving@sjc.ox.ac.uk] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 10:32 AM
> To: emacspeak@cs.vassar.edu
> Subject: Re: emacspeak for windows
> 
> I agree regarding the -q switch.  However,  its still included in the emacspeak.sh script on linux and we presumably want things to be as consistent as possible.
> 
> I vaguely remember there being discussion in the past about why the -q switch is there but I was never persuaded that its a good idea.
> 
> On linux I don't use the script, instead I have a line at the top of my .emacs file which loads emacspeak-setup.el.  It might be better to do the same on Windows, provided that the necessary environment variables are set permanently.  In that way, opening a file whose type  is associated to emacs will automatically start Emacspeak.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Alastair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 09/10/2013 15:00, Alex Midence wrote:
>> Installed it last night.  Works good.  One small thing I would recommend is to remove the -q flag from the batch file's command to launch Emacs.  This way people can just start customizing it right off without having to dig for the batch file.  Works good though.  There is one thing that is pretty big that may need some attention:
>> 
>> Auditory icons do not work in Windows.  I suspect it's because they use the aplay command to play the .wav files.  I think there's a command in windows that is analogus to it and it's just plain old "play" which could be substituted.  There's also code referring to aumix which may need some attention.  As for why bother fixingauditory icons, my response is that they are very handy.  I find them particularly handy reading files with folded sections, be they .org files or source code/markup code.
>> 
>> Again, thank you so very much for doing this work, Jarek.  I simply cannot commend you enough.  It is absolutely fantastic to know that Emacspeak is usable in Windows.  You should spread the word on the blind programmer's mailing list.  I think you will generate a very positive response.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> Alex
>> 
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