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Re: DAISY reader et al



would be a bizarre NDA if they said "you can read the spec,
implement it --but you cant tell others about the spec --but
you can publish the code"--
to maintain their security by obscurity under such
circumstances they'll have to find a really bad software
designer to ensure the code is unreadable.

>>>>> "Janina" == Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net> writes:

    Janina> I understand this and agree that protecting GPL
    Janina> takes precedence.  What I'm unclear about is
    Janina> whether the NDA actually prevents publishing
    Janina> source with the unpacker. I'll have to reread
    Janina> it. I know that sounds crazy.

    Janina> On Tue, 14 May 2002, T. V. Raman wrote:

    >>  X-UID: 7304
    >> 
    >> With respect to your second question -- Re: my
    >> signing an NDA with RFB/Daisy to implement a reader
    >> for unpacking their books --I will do no such thing
    >> --primarily because such an NDA will definitely tie
    >> my hands with respect to open sourcing the
    >> implementation.>>>>>
    >> 
    >> In fact their policy as you describe will preclude
    >> any open source implementation, since their security
    >> by obscurity will not survive an open source
    >> implementation.  This is also the reason why I have
    >> not bothered doing
    >> 
    >> anything with bookshare.  "Janina" == Janina Sajka
    >> <janina@afb.net> writes:
    >> 
    Janina> Hi, Raman: Thanks for the explanation. I know
    Janina> that book. It's rather old, so was written to an
    Janina> interim spec from about 3 years ago. It was an
    Janina> influential book at the time because it
    Janina> demonstrated important concepts we wanted to
    Janina> capture in the spec, but it is no way
    Janina> representative of the final ANSI Z39.86.
    >>
    Janina> I will get you copies of reference books as soon
    Janina> as some are available. In fact, I've already
    Janina> asked about the status of these.  Some are in
    Janina> process at NLS, and others will be available
    Janina> from DAISY.  Please recognize, though, that it
    Janina> will be some time--years actually--before
    Janina> DAISY3/ANSI Z39.86 content is generally
    Janina> available to patrons of various libraries for
    Janina> the blind around the world.
    >>
    Janina> What is available now is content encoded in
    Janina> DAISY 2.02. I strongly suggest support for this
    Janina> spec, because this is the spec usd by RNIB,
    Janina> CNIB, and RFB&D, to name but a few. I'm
    Janina> referring to thousands of titles available
    Janina> through these programs. Some of this content is
    Janina> text plus audio, most is audio only.
    >>
    Janina> I can also get yopu reference content for DAISY
    Janina> 2.02, and would be glad to do so. The spec is at
    Janina> http://www.daisy.org/publications/specifications.asp
    Janina> where it's available online and as a zip
    Janina> download.
    >>
    Janina> Here's the critical question regarding RFB&D
    Janina> books. Are you willing to sign an NDA with DAISY
    Janina> in order to get the spec for unpacking RFB&D
    Janina> content?
    >>
    Janina> Yes, they opted for an obscurity based security
    Janina> solution.  Much could be said about why, and why
    Janina> it should be different. But, that's another
    Janina> discussion.
    >>
    Janina> The point here is that RFB&D will be shipping CD
    Janina> ROMs encoded according to an unpublished
    Janina> specification available to developers willing to
    Janina> sign an NDA with DAISY.
    >>
    Janina> On Mon, 13 May 2002, T. V. Raman wrote:
    >>  >> Here is what happened --
    >> >> 
    >> >> I ran into Markku Hakkinen at the W3C Cannes
    >> plenary >> reception in early March and when I asked
    >> him on the >> status of things in DaisyLand --he told
    >> me about the >> myriad of commercial players being
    >> built for Windows.  >> So I asked him for a sample so
    >> I could write one for >> Linux.
    >> >> 
    >> >> Along with a copy of the Daisy 3 spec, he gave me
    >> >> "The complete fairy tales of Charles Perrault" >>
    >> allegedly in in Daisy3 format -- after coming home I
    >> >> wrote a player for it one evening.
    >> >> 
    >> >> I say "allegedly" above because the navigation xml
    >> >> file I got from him does not validate either
    >> against >> the DTD he gave me then or the eventual
    >> Daisy3 spec.
    >> >> 
    >> >> The functionality that is implemented is
    >> documented >> in the online info pages; when and if
    >> Daisy3 content >> becomes available --and that
    >> content is something I >> want to read i.e., not just
    >> fairy tales-- I will >> probably add to what the
    >> emacspeak daisy player does.
    >> >> 
    >> >> >>>>> "Janina" == Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net> >>
    >> writes:
    >> >> 
    Janina> Raman; Ann's question about the DAISY reader in
    Janina> Emacspeak 16 reminds me to ask a similar
    Janina> question of you.
    >> >>
    Janina> The docs say this is a device for reading
    Janina> DAISY3content. But, there are yet no titles in
    Janina> this format. Indeed, I'm not aware that DAISY
    Janina> has yet adopted ANSI Z39.86 as DAISY3, though
    Janina> they certainly will.
    >> >>
    Janina> So, here's the question ...
    >> >>
    Janina> What titles did you test with?
    >> >>
    Janina> --
    >> >>
    Janina> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Janina> Development Governmental Relations Group
    Janina> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
    >> >>
    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
    >> >>
    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book
    Janina> Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org
    >> >>
    Janina> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Janina> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change
    Janina> your address on the emacspeak list send mail to
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    >> >>
    Janina> --
    >>
    Janina> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and
    Janina> Development Governmental Relations Group
    Janina> American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
    >>
    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
    >>
    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book
    Janina> Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org
    >>

    Janina> --
	
    Janina> 				Janina Sajka,
    Janina> Director Technology Research and Development
    Janina> Governmental Relations Group American Foundation
    Janina> for the Blind (AFB)

    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book
    Janina> Forum (OEBF) http://www.openebook.org

-- 
Best Regards,
--raman

      
Email:  raman@cs.cornell.edu
WWW: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/             
AIM: TVRaman
PGP:    http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/raman/raman.asc 

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