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Re: DAISY reader et al




Note that I said "it's ugly" about the Daisy2 navigation
files which use HTML --
I know nothing (good or bad) about the rest of the mess.

If they want to maintain the formats as
proprietary/confidential --the only way out is for them to
make available binary tools that work on different platforms
that allows you to work with the content.

Knowing the way the accessibility for blind users space
works, I wouldn't expect this to go beyond helping the
dos-impaired.
>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Cross <tcross@pobox.une.edu.au> writes:

    Tim> Probably way out of my depth here (nothing new in
    Tim> that), but I would imagine that if someone is going
    Tim> to go to the lengths of making you sign a NDA to
    Tim> gain access to the specs that this would also
    Tim> preclude providing source because anyone who has
    Tim> the sources would be able to determine the specs
    Tim> fairly easily without having to sign the NDA.

    Tim> Probably the only way we could provide the sources
    Tim> and not get into strife for breaking a NDA is if
    Tim> someone just reverse engineered the software
    Tim> without having signed any NDA with Daisy. However,
    Tim> if its is as ugly and complex specification as
    Tim> Raman indicates, then this would be a non-trivial
    Tim> task.

    Tim> The only other alternative I can think of is if
    Tim> someone is prepared to sign the NDA, write the
    Tim> software as a stand alone application and
    Tim> distribute it in binary form. Then it should be
    Tim> trivial to create an emacs/emacspeak interface to
    Tim> it which would not infringe on the GPL nature of
    Tim> emacspeak or emacs.

    Tim> Tim

>>>>> "Janina" == Janina Sajka <janina@afb.NET> writes:

    Janina> I understand this and agree that protecting GPL takes
    Janina>     Janina> precedence.  What I'm unclear about is whether the NDA
    Janina> actually prevents publishing source with the
    Janina> unpacker. I'll have to reread it. I know that sounds
    Janina> crazy.

    Janina> On Tue, 14 May 2002, T. V. Raman wrote:

    >>> X-UID: 7304
    >>> 
    >> With respect to your second question -- Re: my signing an NDA
    >> with RFB/Daisy to implement a reader for unpacking their books
    >> --I will do no such thing --primarily because such an NDA will
    >> definitely tie my hands with respect to open sourcing the
    >> implementation.>>>>>
    >> 
    >> In fact their policy as you describe will preclude any open
    >> source implementation, since their security by obscurity will
    >> not survive an open source implementation.  This is also the
    >> reason why I have not bothered doing
    >> 
    >> anything with bookshare.  "Janina" == Janina Sajka
    >> <janina@afb.net> writes:
    >> 
    Janina> Hi, Raman: Thanks for the explanation. I know that
    Janina>     Janina> book. It's rather old, so was written to an interim spec
    Janina> from about 3 years ago. It was an influential book at the
    Janina> time because it demonstrated important concepts we wanted
    Janina> to capture in the spec, but it is no way representative of
    Janina> the final ANSI Z39.86.
    >>>
    Janina> I will get you copies of reference books as soon as some
    Janina>     Janina> are available. In fact, I've already asked about the
    Janina> status of these.  Some are in process at NLS, and others
    Janina> will be available from DAISY.  Please recognize, though,
    Janina> that it will be some time--years actually--before
    Janina> DAISY3/ANSI Z39.86 content is generally available to
    Janina> patrons of various libraries for the blind around the
    Janina> world.
    >>>
    Janina> What is available now is content encoded in DAISY 2.02. I
    Janina>     Janina> strongly suggest support for this spec, because this is
    Janina> the spec usd by RNIB, CNIB, and RFB&D, to name but a
    Janina> few. I'm referring to thousands of titles available
    Janina> through these programs. Some of this content is text plus
    Janina> audio, most is audio only.
    >>>
    Janina> I can also get yopu reference content for DAISY 2.02, and
    Janina>     Janina> would be glad to do so. The spec is at
    Janina> http://www.daisy.org/publications/specifications.asp where
    Janina> it's available online and as a zip download.
    >>>
    Janina> Here's the critical question regarding RFB&D books. Are
    Janina>     Janina> you willing to sign an NDA with DAISY in order to get the
    Janina> spec for unpacking RFB&D content?
    >>>
    Janina> Yes, they opted for an obscurity based security solution.
    Janina>     Janina> Much could be said about why, and why it should be
    Janina> different. But, that's another discussion.
    >>>
    Janina> The point here is that RFB&D will be shipping CD ROMs
    Janina>     Janina> encoded according to an unpublished specification
    Janina> available to developers willing to sign an NDA with DAISY.
    >>>
    Janina> On Mon, 13 May 2002, T. V. Raman wrote:
    >>> >> Here is what happened --
    >>> >> 
    >> >> I ran into Markku Hakkinen at the W3C Cannes plenary >>
    >> reception in early March and when I asked him on the >> status
    >> of things in DaisyLand --he told me about the >> myriad of
    >> commercial players being built for Windows.  >> So I asked him
    >> for a sample so I could write one for >> Linux.
    >> >> 
    >> >> Along with a copy of the Daisy 3 spec, he gave me >> "The
    >> complete fairy tales of Charles Perrault" >> allegedly in in
    >> Daisy3 format -- after coming home I >> wrote a player for it
    >> one evening.
    >> >> 
    >> >> I say "allegedly" above because the navigation xml >> file I
    >> got from him does not validate either against >> the DTD he
    >> gave me then or the eventual Daisy3 spec.
    >> >> 
    >> >> The functionality that is implemented is documented >> in
    >> the online info pages; when and if Daisy3 content >> becomes
    >> available --and that content is something I >> want to read
    >> i.e., not just fairy tales-- I will >> probably add to what the
    >> emacspeak daisy player does.
    >> >> 
    >> >> >>>>> "Janina" == Janina Sajka <janina@afb.net> >> writes:
    >> >> 
    Janina> Raman; Ann's question about the DAISY reader in Emacspeak
    Janina>     Janina> 16 reminds me to ask a similar question of you.
    >>> >>
    Janina> The docs say this is a device for reading
    Janina>     Janina> DAISY3content. But, there are yet no titles in this
    Janina> format. Indeed, I'm not aware that DAISY has yet adopted
    Janina> ANSI Z39.86 as DAISY3, though they certainly will.
    >>> >>
    Janina> So, here's the question ...
    >>> >>
    Janina> What titles did you test with?
    >>> >>
    Janina> --
    >>> >>
    Janina> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development
    Janina>     Janina> Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the
    Janina> Blind (AFB)
    >>> >>
    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
    >>> >>
    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
    Janina>     Janina> http://www.openebook.org
    >>> >>
    Janina> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Janina>     Janina> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    Janina> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
    Janina> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
    Janina> "unsubscribe" or "help"
    >>> >>
    Janina> --
    >>>
    Janina> Janina Sajka, Director Technology Research and Development
    Janina>     Janina> Governmental Relations Group American Foundation for the
    Janina> Blind (AFB)
    >>>
    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175
    >>>
    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
    Janina>     Janina> http://www.openebook.org
    >>>

    Janina> --
	
    Janina> Janina Sajka, Director
    Janina> Technology Research and Development Governmental Relations
    Janina>     Janina> Group American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

    Janina> Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175

    Janina> Chair, Accessibility SIG Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
    Janina>     Janina> http://www.openebook.org

    Janina> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Janina>     Janina> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    Janina> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
    Janina> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
    Janina> "unsubscribe" or "help"


    Tim> -- Tim Cross E-Mail: tcross@pobox.une.edu.au
    Tim> Analyst/Programmer Phone: 6773 3210 Applications
    Tim> Group Mobile: 0412 969193 University of New England
    Tim> --- find / -iname microsoft -exec rm -rf {} \;^^ݳI_jfrzYyۖYo0,+en&{ڙMTZ0,+en&{ڙ

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