I'll read this closer later, but I agree in general. I really don't like GUI's. I don't have mail and a browser working with emacspeak, but if ( and when ) I did, I'd totally ignore gnome, orca and … Thanks, -j On May 11, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > If I understand your setup and how our running emacs and emacspeak, I > don't think gnome-orca is the issue. > > From your description, you appear to be running emacs and emacspeak in > Linux consoles and not under X. If that is the case, why run > gnome-orca? > > I run the gnome desktop. I have a key binding defined which will start > emacs as a native GTK app i.e. not inside a terminal or a linux console. > I have defined key bindings to move between virtual workspaces, where I > tend to run individual apps. For example, in one, I will start a gnome > terminal window with speech support from orca, in another emacs running > emacspeak using either espeak (work machine) or ibmtts (home machine). > In another virtual workspace, I have google-chrome running with > chromevox. I move between the virtual workspaces with f11 and f12. The > hardest part I had was getting the apps to default to opening maximised, > so that they use the whole virtual workspace and I don't get issues with > the mouse moving focus to the root window etc. > > I rarely use the Linux console. I don't run speakup etc. > > For me, espeak under emacspeak is quite unstable. I turn off character > echo and that helps, but find that espeak either crashes or gets 'stuck' > repeating text or gets way behind a lot. I've just gotten use to the > fact that espeak under emacspeak is not particularly good. However, > espeak under speech-dispatcher and orca is rock solid for me, especially > on systems that are all 64 bit and not mixed 64 and 32 bit. At work, I > will often use speechd-el rather than emacspeak because it is much more > stable with espeak than emacspeak is. > > If you are starting X and speech-dispatcher and orca and then switching > to a Linux virtual console with ctl+alt+f[1..6], then it is possible you > will get instability as your really running two login sessions - one > under X and one just under the console. I would either not boot into X > and just run form the console (should be able to do that by changing the > default run-level) or I would continue to boot into X and run emacs and > emacspeak under X rather than switching to the console. It will take a > little extra work to get this working well if you have absolutely no > sight, but is quite possible. > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 23:12 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote: >> Tim, >> Sorry, I may have misunderstood your message. The last thing I would recommend is to run as root. >> I was reporting something that I thought might lead to a better understanding of the problem. >> I recently moved to ubuntu 12.10 and started to have these problems. I'm pretty sure I wasn't experiencing these problems with ubuntu 10.04. >> Unless I misunderstood, you're having to restart espeak frequently, this doesn't seem to be a very stable situation. >> >> Can you explain why we're seeing emacspeak and espeak crashing after a couple of key strokes under a normal user and not seeing any kind of crashing under root? >> >> I'm running ubuntu 12.10. >> emacspeak 37.0 >> emacs 24.1. >> I open a new terminal login with control alt f[1-6], then invoke emacspeak. >> >> >> Actually, it's coming back to me now. I used to disable gnome by changing the run level for the login to 3 or something other than the level that brings up the guy. >> emacspeak and speak was rock solid after that. >> I think gnome is messing things up. >> I used to be able to do this in /etc/inittab, but that doesn't seem to be there anymore. >> Thanks, >> John >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 10:02 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> Turn it around the other way - what do you do which you cannot do as a >>> normal user. Often, this just means having to make a few minor config >>> changes, such as adding your normal user to a specific group. For >>> example, on some systems, you may need to be a member of the audio group >>> i order to use the audio device. >>> >>> The difficulty here is that there are no set rules. It all depends on >>> your distro and how they have set things up. What is generally true is >>> that hardly anything other than software installation and low level >>> actions should require root privileges. Needing to run lots of htings as >>> root generally indicates a configuration problem. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 21:35 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote: >>>> How can I tell if a normal user has sufficient privileges? >>>> I used to do something under /dev/audio, but I can't remember what. >>>> Thanks, >>>> -j >>>> On May 10, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I've never tried running as root with espeak or emacs, so can't comment >>>>> on differences. Very bad idea to run as root and should not be >>>>> necessary. Similar to always having your windows login running with >>>>> admin privs. You will expose yourself to malware and virus issues >>>>> (anyone who tells you Linux and OSX doesn't have malware or viruses is >>>>> talking rubbish). >>>>> >>>>> If you are seeing a difference between stability running as root >>>>> compared to a normal user, it might be that the normal user does not >>>>> have the necessary permissions to do things like use the real-time >>>>> scheduler which pulseaudio needs. However, I've not seen linux systems >>>>> having this problem for quite a few years now, so would be surprised. >>>>> >>>>> I run both gnome orca and emacspeak with espeak on one system, gnome >>>>> orca and emacspeak with outloud on another and emacspeak with just >>>>> espeak on a 3rd system. All are 64 bit. I've not noticed any significant >>>>> difference between the systems with respect to espeak. On all systems >>>>> using espeak, espeak is extremely stable with orca and speech dispatcher >>>>> and unstable with emacspeak. I also find espeak is very stable using >>>>> speechd-el. >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 19:17 -0400, John Joseph Morgan wrote: >>>>>> I see this too with espeak. It seems to go away when I run emacspeak with espeak under the root user. >>>>>> I have gnome started with orca at boot up. Is gnome and orca interfering somehow with a non-root user's use of espeak? >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can just use the dmesg command in a terminal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also see the regular loss of speech with espeak. I have never been >>>>>>> able to track down the issue, though I tend to get distracted with other >>>>>>> things when I try. I don't see this crashing with speechd or with espeak >>>>>>> and speech-dispatcher generally. It is limited to the emacspeak espeak >>>>>>> interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I find disabling character echo can help a bit. Otherwise, I've just >>>>>>> gotten use to hitting C-e C-s to restart espeak when it stops >>>>>>> responding. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have noticed that I don't see this issue with the experiments I've >>>>>>> done that don't use tcl as the interface language. So it could be that >>>>>>> the problem is in the tcl layer, but this is just more guesswork. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 11:50 +1000, Jason White wrote: >>>>>>>> Christopher Chaltain <chaltain@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't see this file on this system. It's a Ubuntu based system. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ubuntu keeps diverging from every other Linux distribution in a growing >>>>>>>> variety of ways. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Try /var/log/syslog. I don't have an Ubuntu-based system so I'm guessing here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >>>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>>>>>> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>>>>> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >>>> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >>>> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >>>> >>> >>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the >> emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a >> subject of "unsubscribe" or "help". >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxx" with a subject of "unsubscribe" or "help".
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