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Re: Emacspeak with eSpeak losing speech on Vinux 4




I started running X  once we started building ChromeVox;  but I
managed to keep my environment simple by running stumpwm, a
tiling window manager.  So now I have Emacs and Chrome both
running in the GUI  environment, and it gives me everything Ineed.
>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> writes:
    Tim> One of the main reasons I use X and gnome is to have
    Tim> easy access to google-chrome and chromevox, which I find
    Tim> to be the best web browser with speech support out
    Tim> there. The use of gnome orca makes the gnome experience
    Tim> bearable and the combination of emacs, emacspeak, google
    Tim> chrome and chromevox gives me a pretty comprehensive
    Tim> environment. When I absolutely have to, I can fall back
    Tim> to gnome-terminal, orca and gedit (or even vi in a
    Tim> pinch).
    Tim> 
    Tim> I fought against the GUI environment for years, but
    Tim> realised that the web was becoming too 'rich' for a
    Tim> plain text editor that doens't support javascript. While
    Tim> I still use w3m and even w3 from time to time, I use
    Tim> chrome and chromevox more and more. in fact, one of my
    Tim> tasks for today is to adjust my browse-url config to
    Tim> make switching between browsing with w3m, w3 and chrome
    Tim> even easier.
    Tim> 
    Tim> Tim
    Tim> 
    Tim> Tim
    Tim> 
    Tim> 
    Tim> On Sat, 2013-05-11 at 15:08 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
    Tim> wrote:
    >> I'll read this closer later, but I agree in general. I
    >> really don't like GUI's. I don't have mail and a browser
    >> working with emacspeak, but if ( and when ) I did, I'd
    >> totally ignore gnome, orca and â Thanks, -j On May 11,
    >> 2013, at 12:05 AM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
    >> 
    >> > 
    >> > If I understand your setup and how our running emacs and
    >> emacspeak, I > don't think gnome-orca is the issue.
    >> > 
    >> > From your description, you appear to be running emacs
    >> and emacspeak in > Linux consoles and not under X. If that
    >> is the case, why run > gnome-orca?
    >> > 
    >> > I run the gnome desktop. I have a key binding defined
    >> which will start > emacs as a native GTK app i.e. not
    >> inside a terminal or a linux console. > I have defined key
    >> bindings to move between virtual workspaces, where I >
    >> tend to run individual apps. For example, in one, I will
    >> start a gnome > terminal window with speech support from
    >> orca, in another emacs running > emacspeak using either
    >> espeak (work machine) or ibmtts (home machine). > In
    >> another virtual workspace, I have google-chrome running
    >> with > chromevox. I move between the virtual workspaces
    >> with f11 and f12. The > hardest part I had was getting the
    >> apps to default to opening maximised, > so that they use
    >> the whole virtual workspace and I don't get issues with >
    >> the mouse moving focus to the root window etc.
    >> > 
    >> > I rarely use the Linux console. I don't run speakup etc.
    >> > 
    >> > For me, espeak under emacspeak is quite unstable. I turn
    >> off character > echo and that helps, but find that espeak
    >> either crashes or gets 'stuck' > repeating text or gets
    >> way behind a lot. I've just gotten use to the > fact that
    >> espeak under emacspeak is not particularly good. However,
    >> > espeak under speech-dispatcher and orca is rock solid
    >> for me, especially > on systems that are all 64 bit and
    >> not mixed 64 and 32 bit. At work, I > will often use
    >> speechd-el rather than emacspeak because it is much more >
    >> stable with espeak than emacspeak is.
    >> > 
    >> > If you are starting X and speech-dispatcher and orca and
    >> then switching > to a Linux virtual console with
    >> ctl+alt+f[1..6], then it is possible you > will get
    >> instability as your really running two login sessions -
    >> one > under X and one just under the console. I would
    >> either not boot into X > and just run form the console
    >> (should be able to do that by changing the > default
    >> run-level) or I would continue to boot into X and run
    >> emacs and > emacspeak under X rather than switching to the
    >> console. It will take a > little extra work to get this
    >> working well if you have absolutely no > sight, but is
    >> quite possible.
    >> > 
    >> > Tim
    >> > 
    >> > 
    >> > 
    >> > On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 23:12 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
    >> wrote: >> Tim, >> Sorry, I may have misunderstood your
    >> message. The last thing I would recommend is to run as
    >> root. >> I was reporting something that I thought might
    >> lead to a better understanding of the problem. >> I
    >> recently moved to ubuntu 12.10 and started to have these
    >> problems. I'm pretty sure I wasn't experiencing these
    >> problems with ubuntu 10.04. >> Unless I misunderstood,
    >> you're having to restart espeak frequently, this doesn't
    >> seem to be a very stable situation.
    >> >> 
    >> >> Can you explain why we're seeing emacspeak and espeak
    >> crashing after a couple of key strokes under a normal user
    >> and not seeing any kind of crashing under root?
    >> >> 
    >> >> I'm running ubuntu 12.10. >> emacspeak 37.0 >> emacs
    >> 24.1. >> I open a new terminal login with control alt
    >> f[1-6], then invoke emacspeak.
    >> >> 
    >> >> 
    >> >> Actually, it's coming back to me now. I used to disable
    >> gnome by changing the run level for the login to 3 or
    >> something other than the level that brings up the guy. >>
    >> emacspeak and speak was rock solid after that. >> I think
    >> gnome is messing things up. >> I used to be able to do
    >> this in /etc/inittab, but that doesn't seem to be there
    >> anymore. >> Thanks, >> John
    >> >> 
    >> >> On May 10, 2013, at 10:02 PM, Tim Cross
    >> <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
    >> >> 
    >> >>> Turn it around the other way - what do you do which
    >> you cannot do as a >>> normal user. Often, this just means
    >> having to make a few minor config >>> changes, such as
    >> adding your normal user to a specific group. For >>>
    >> example, on some systems, you may need to be a member of
    >> the audio group >>> i order to use the audio device.
    >> >>> 
    >> >>> The difficulty here is that there are no set rules. It
    >> all depends on >>> your distro and how they have set
    >> things up. What is generally true is >>> that hardly
    >> anything other than software installation and low level
    >> >>> actions should require root privileges. Needing to run
    >> lots of htings as >>> root generally indicates a
    >> configuration problem.
    >> >>> 
    >> >>> Tim
    >> >>> 
    >> >>> 
    >> >>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 21:35 -0400, John Joseph Morgan
    >> wrote: >>>> How can I tell if a normal user has sufficient
    >> privileges? >>>> I used to do something under /dev/audio,
    >> but I can't remember what. >>>> Thanks, >>>> -j >>>> On
    >> May 10, 2013, at 8:00 PM, Tim Cross <tcross@une.edu.au>
    >> wrote:
    >> >>>> 
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>>> I've never tried running as root with espeak or
    >> emacs, so can't comment >>>>> on differences. Very bad
    >> idea to run as root and should not be >>>>>
    >> necessary. Similar to always having your windows login
    >> running with >>>>> admin privs. You will expose yourself
    >> to malware and virus issues >>>>> (anyone who tells you
    >> Linux and OSX doesn't have malware or viruses is >>>>>
    >> talking rubbish).
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>>> If you are seeing a difference between stability
    >> running as root >>>>> compared to a normal user, it might
    >> be that the normal user does not >>>>> have the necessary
    >> permissions to do things like use the real-time >>>>>
    >> scheduler which pulseaudio needs. However, I've not seen
    >> linux systems >>>>> having this problem for quite a few
    >> years now, so would be surprised.
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>>> I run both gnome orca and emacspeak with espeak on
    >> one system, gnome >>>>> orca and emacspeak with outloud on
    >> another and emacspeak with just >>>>> espeak on a 3rd
    >> system. All are 64 bit. I've not noticed any significant
    >> >>>>> difference between the systems with respect to
    >> espeak. On all systems >>>>> using espeak, espeak is
    >> extremely stable with orca and speech dispatcher >>>>> and
    >> unstable with emacspeak. I also find espeak is very stable
    >> using >>>>> speechd-el.
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>>> Tim >>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 19:17 -0400, John
    >> Joseph Morgan wrote: >>>>>> I see this too with espeak. It
    >> seems to go away when I run emacspeak with espeak under
    >> the root user. >>>>>> I have gnome started with orca at
    >> boot up. Is gnome and orca interfering somehow with a
    >> non-root user's use of espeak? >>>>>> John
    >> >>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 6:43 PM, Tim Cross
    >> <tcross@une.edu.au> wrote:
    >> >>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> You can just use the dmesg command in a terminal.
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> I also see the regular loss of speech with
    >> espeak. I have never been >>>>>>> able to track down the
    >> issue, though I tend to get distracted with other >>>>>>>
    >> things when I try. I don't see this crashing with speechd
    >> or with espeak >>>>>>> and speech-dispatcher generally. It
    >> is limited to the emacspeak espeak >>>>>>> interface.
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> I find disabling character echo can help a
    >> bit. Otherwise, I've just >>>>>>> gotten use to hitting
    >> C-e C-s to restart espeak when it stops >>>>>>>
    >> responding.
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> I have noticed that I don't see this issue with
    >> the experiments I've >>>>>>> done that don't use tcl as
    >> the interface language. So it could be that >>>>>>> the
    >> problem is in the tcl layer, but this is just more
    >> guesswork.
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> Tim
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 11:50 +1000, Jason White
    >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Christopher Chaltain <chaltain@gmail.com>
    >> wrote:
    >> >>>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>>>> I don't see this file on this system. It's a
    >> Ubuntu based system.
    >> >>>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>>> Ubuntu keeps diverging from every other Linux
    >> distribution in a growing >>>>>>>> variety of ways.
    >> >>>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>>> Try /var/log/syslog. I don't have an Ubuntu-based
    >> system so I'm guessing here.
    >> >>>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change
    >> your address on the >>>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to
    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a >>>>>>>> subject
    >> of "unsubscribe" or "help".
    >> >>>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change
    >> your address on the >>>>>>> emacspeak list send mail to
    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a >>>>>>> subject
    >> of "unsubscribe" or "help".
    >> >>>>>>> 
    >> >>>>>> 
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>>> 
    >> >>>> 
    >> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> >>>> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    >> address on the >>>> emacspeak list send mail to
    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a >>>> subject of
    >> "unsubscribe" or "help".
    >> >>>> 
    >> >>> 
    >> >>> 
    >> >> 
    >> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    >> address on the >> emacspeak list send mail to
    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a >> subject of
    >> "unsubscribe" or "help".
    >> >> 
    >> > 
    >> > 
    >> 
    >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    >> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
    >> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
    >> "unsubscribe" or "help".
    >> 
    Tim> 
    Tim> 
    Tim> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tim> To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your
    Tim> address on the emacspeak list send mail to
    Tim> "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a subject of
    Tim> "unsubscribe" or "help".

--
Best Regards,
--raman

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